Episode 16: Deviations from the Mean

Looking at all of the Vadi stuff was interesting, because it got me thinking.  There are a lot of sources that talk about the longsword, and there are a lot of similarities, at least superficially, to how these sources are telling us to fight.  Clearly, this can result from a number of possible reasons, including: passing around the existing fightbooks and then copying their methods, masters and men-at-arms traveling throughout Europe exchanging ideas and keeping what "works", or co-evolution, wherein there are only so many ways to use a longsword somewhat effectively and these methods were arrived at independently in many places at around the same time.  The reality of these situations is that it is usually something of all of the above.

Anyway, instead of looking at what is similar, this post is about the ways that a longsword is used which seem to be unique, or at least rare.  Some of these come from later on in the longsword's life, after single swords have become the most prevalent swords, but these are still swordsmen talking about the weapon, and so it is interesting to see how they think it should be used.

Vadi - posta falcon

The first observation is something that I have already covered.  The Italian Vadi's 1482 manual has two things which make it unique.  The first is the right foot forward posta di falcon, which strongly suggests that Vadi encourages starting right foot forward, and then psuedo-lunging into attacks from above.  Although, this does show up more often, the more towards the present you move through time.

Vadi - porta di ferro forte

Vadi - posta di cinghuara

The next are these two guards in which the front let is protected from the outside with a low point forward position.  Almost everywhere else, when the outside of the outside leg needs protection, we see some form of shrankhut, where the point is straight down.





Vadi's posta di cinghuara gaurd also appears earlier in the Cod.Guelf.78.2.Aug.2º from around 1470 (hinting at perhaps more cross fencing exchange between Italy and the H.R.E.)

Codex Guelf (~1470)
2 of 6 guards shown

Moving on, the next bit of unusual behavior comes from what is done with the left hand.  Throughout the majority of works and explanations, we have advice to mostly keep hold of the sword with the right hand and attempt to do the grips or arm breads, etc... with the left hand.  This is because the right hand, up near the cross, retains much more control of the sword.  The biggest deviation from this rule, then, comes from two three four sources.  The first is the German Talhoffer, who's 1467 manual contains the Das gayszlen:

Talhoffer - Das gayszlen

 Talhoffer uses the technique to sling the sword to the legs, thus, by using the left hand, he maximizes his range and minimizes some of the risk from over running by the opponent.  This is, however, the only example of this technique being used that I am aware of.






The next example of unique left hand only work is done by another Italian, Di Grassi in 1570.

Di Grassi - Italian manual version

His manual is primarily on the use of the rapier or side sword, and you can read into this, his desire to keep the longsword, or spadone, in line with those teachings.  It should also be noted, that by this time period, the spadone would be somewhat longer and heavier than earlier examples of the longsword.  Anyway, Di Grassi recommends that while fighting, you should use two hands on the sword and to work until an opening on the enemy has presented itself.  Then, you should shoot out the sword with your left hand only, with a left foot step, to thus stab your opponent at the weapon's maximum reach.

I have found another source which contains one handed sword attacks, which, if I find any more of these, I am going to have to change the title of this post into "Things that everyone does".  Anyway, Albrecht Durer is not a fencing master, but is a greatly renowned Renaissance artist, and he created two fencing related texts.  The second of which is a textless sketch book of longsword, messer, sword and buckler, and dagger in 1512.  This book contains these two images, the first showing a left handed "murder blow" to the leg, and the second showing a left handed thrust, very similar to Di Grassi's.

Durer - 1512

Durer - 1512

Finally, we have Jorg Hutter's manual from 1523, which, as far as I can tell, has not been translated into english, but does contain this play.  This particular play is taken from the Cluny Fightbook, which contains this image from around 1500:

Here, we can plainly see that a left hand only attack is being used to attack the right arm of the opponent, again in what appears to be an effort to outreach him.

Both All of these men are using the extra reach gained by using the left hand only to their advantage, which makes logical sense, but they are still the only two people to instruct you to do this.


Di Grassi also leads nicely into the last bit of longsword use that deviates from the norm, that is, only using the sword point forward as guards.  Perhaps the most obvious difference between the longsword, or spadone, and say, the rapier, is that the rapier is used pretty much exclusively point forward, at all times.  This usage matriculated its way into other weapons, particularly among the Italians, and so we have both Di Grassi, who's guards amount to the two ochs' and the two flugs', and also Agrippa, who says in 1553 of the spadone that there is no easy system of it that he can deduce, but that it can be used similarly to a hafted weapon (a halberd in his images).  Additionally, it has been a while, but I think that the Portugese Montante, is also described as being used in this point forward manner, especially favoring the two ochs positions. (I will look into this, and will edit as needed).  Cutting is still shown in most of these systems, it just takes the form of the full compass rotation.

We also have the Englishman, George Silver in 1605, saying that the longsword should be used like the short staff.

One trend here then, is that as the longsword fell out of popularity in certain countries, the trends which drove the the longsword's development were somewhat forgotten and replaced with new trends related to other weapons which were more popular.  We know, from fencing guild records in several countries, though, that the older style was still probably taught within those schools, and the longsword was still quite popular in the H.R.E, as well as the Netherlands and Belgium, until the late 1600s.


Notice, this entry has been updated on Feb 6, 2015 to reflect additional information from a couple of extra sources.  New info shown in blue.

Secondary Notice:  this entry has been updated on 2/10/15 to reflect new information.  New text is indicated in red.